tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post8548746388241690326..comments2023-05-27T00:06:43.961+09:00Comments on The Preacher and the Skeptic: Can Jennifer Knapp Love Both God and Women?Doug DeLonghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11885710324806794921noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-5009125158341459742010-05-06T22:21:49.877+09:002010-05-06T22:21:49.877+09:00Yes, I thought it might be an interesting idea...Yes, I thought it might be an interesting idea...Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213112075138656823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-65749808532332509672010-05-06T06:38:36.998+09:002010-05-06T06:38:36.998+09:00Jeff: Thanks for your thorough explanation on how ...Jeff: Thanks for your thorough explanation on how the Bible speaks about homosexuality. Are you suggesting that the preacher be the Skeptic for a change?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163876007786334757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-54651218792076386642010-05-06T02:54:24.160+09:002010-05-06T02:54:24.160+09:00Oh, and y'all could do an Atheist vs Skeptic o...Oh, and y'all could do an Atheist vs Skeptic or Evolutionist vs Skeptic entry someday... I think that might be interesting.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213112075138656823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-16364728941165926312010-05-06T02:53:27.417+09:002010-05-06T02:53:27.417+09:00"You'd think any God worth his salt would..."You'd think any God worth his salt would have come up with a way to communicate to the masses without causing so much confusion."<br /><br />Unfortunately human language is ambiguous and I'm thinking the process of translation isn't perfect either (I think you could probably make the guarantee that there is no one-to-one mapping between any two languages on planet earth). This is why we go back to the original language and look at things like is the word "men" here mean a group of men, or mankind in general (an important thing to look at before making decision about the role of women in Church).<br /><br />And concerning the idea of things being "out-of-date". Like the preacher mentioned above, lots of Old Testament laws are not applicable to Christians...<br /><br />But what about the New Testament? It says in I Corinthians 11:6 that "if a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off?" (concerning propriety in worship). Clearly most churches are not following that command. Aren't they contradicting themselves if they say they believe the Bible is truth? No. Why? Because parts of the New Testament are directed to specific people and situations in the early church. For those kinds of passages, we can learn and apply the principles from the text. <br /><br />Take the issue of whether Christians can eat meat sacrificed at temples to pagan gods. That really isn't much of an issue today, but the principles there can be applied to any number of conflicts over things that the Bible is silent on (for example, the issue of what kind of music is appropriate in Church).<br /><br />The important idea here that reading the context and understanding the background is imperative. Yes, there is a process of interpretation, but there is no excuse for sloppiness. We must use the entire text, the facts, and the best information we have with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible.<br /><br />Now concerning passages about homosexuality. There are several passages throughout the Bible that people use to say homosexuality is wrong. The Genesis account of the first marriage (aka, God's design for marriage, he told them to be fruitful and multiple, reproduction can only take place between a male and female), Old Testament law (Leviticus), Jesus's description of marriage when addressing the issue of divorce (Mark 10), Romans 1... but let's focus on I Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:9-10. Now, the question about what the Bible says about homosexuality is whether or not it was just a cultural thing, and hence doesn't apply to us today. Both passage include lists of sins that are unacceptable to God, including sins like lying, slave trading (hmm, now there's material for another post), stealing, kidnapping, and murdering (things that I think we can agree are wrong, and rules that I'm pretty sure we can agree still apply today). Both passages also include the Greek word usually translated as homosexuals. But notice the context. It isn't some cultural issue being addressed, it is in a list of sins that are unacceptable to God, not just then, but now as well. (As a side-note, I do want to acknowledge that there seems to be some serious contention about the translation of that Greek word. However, my point here is simply to explain why most Christians believe that these passage concerning homosexuality still apply today instead simply being a cultural issue applying only to that time and place).Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213112075138656823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-6044935449074390082010-05-06T02:43:50.885+09:002010-05-06T02:43:50.885+09:00"God had communicated quite clearly" but..."God had communicated quite clearly" but our minds our quite easily clouded by self-deception. I ended up reading "The Making of an Atheist" by James Spiegel after it was mentioned on this blog. He dealt pretty extensively with this point. However, I can bring up some scripture if there are those who are interested in that. But concerning self-deception, consider how easy it is to take a comment someone makes and take it the wrong way. Our minds are irrational to a certain extent, we are not Vulcan :)<br /><br />I'm not saying my understanding is perfect on all of this, but this is my understand right now on my journey through life.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11213112075138656823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-6321501288669573172010-04-30T22:03:58.707+09:002010-04-30T22:03:58.707+09:00Your "LIFE" is not my authority. (Isn...Your "LIFE" is not my authority. (Isn't it temporary?) I personally know real people that have switched from being straight to gay and vice versa. I have to refrain from giving a list of names for privacy sake. Yes, it is time to stop imagining and meet real people.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163876007786334757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-49576587931190772632010-04-30T14:32:35.436+09:002010-04-30T14:32:35.436+09:00Well, I get my authoritative info from LIFE. As to...Well, I get my authoritative info from LIFE. As to your second point, you may be right, but you've missed the point. It's a thought experiment in which one tries to imagine how he might go about changing from straight to gay if pressured to do so. You can't imagine it, can you? But you have no problem insisting that gays must become straight.Doughttp://planetjapan.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-10700234441200356862010-04-30T02:08:25.661+09:002010-04-30T02:08:25.661+09:00Skeptic: I don't know how a son or daughter ca...Skeptic: I don't know how a son or daughter can have a healthy relationship with their parents if accusations of "immorality" are constantly swirling about them.<br /><br />Time to go out and meet some real people.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163876007786334757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-6417625381047719362010-04-30T02:04:40.276+09:002010-04-30T02:04:40.276+09:00Skeptic: imagine for a moment that you live in a d...Skeptic: imagine for a moment that you live in a different society where heterosexuality has been labeled "sinful." <br /><br />Wouldn't such a society cease to exist in one generation?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163876007786334757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4457462934916022222.post-40398181277084959402010-04-30T02:02:13.881+09:002010-04-30T02:02:13.881+09:00Skeptic says: YES, the sexual experience really is...Skeptic says: YES, the sexual experience really is that central and crucial for human happiness. I think that's actually kind of obvious.<br /><br />Where does the skeptic get his authoritative info from?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163876007786334757noreply@blogger.com